I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. Putting up a "serial refunders" list is a good idea, but some buyers may have a higher than average refund rate simply because of bad luck and the fact that they bought from a few bad sellers. For instance, I have purchased a total of 61 solo ads on Udimi. 7 of them have been refunded. A few were bad sellers, and a few were sellers who had to refund me for some other reason, like because they had double booked and could not do my solo that day.
That makes my refund rate 11.48%, which is considered high, compared to the "2%" that you say is "normal." Then you go on to say that "buyers with high refund rates will cause problems." This is totally unfair. Now I have to worry that some good sellers will not sell to me because of some statistics which DO NOT portray the actual facts.
In the end, putting refund rates next to a buyer's name is only going to cause some sellers to refuse to sell them solos, and is going to hurt the overall business of not only the solo sellers, but Udimi itself.
Like I said, a list of serial refunders is certainly a great tool to help sellers, but this here is a terrible idea.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with this. Putting up a "serial refunders" list is a good idea, but some buyers may have a higher than average refund rate simply because of bad luck and the fact that they bought from a few bad sellers. For instance, I have purchased a total of 61 solo ads on Udimi. 7 of them have been refunded. A few were bad sellers, and a few were sellers who had to refund me for some other reason, like because they had double booked and could not do my solo that day.
That makes my refund rate 11.48%, which is considered high, compared to the "2%" that you say is "normal." Then you go on to say that "buyers with high refund rates will cause problems." This is totally unfair. Now I have to worry that some good sellers will not sell to me because of some statistics which DO NOT portray the actual facts.
In the end, putting refund rates next to a buyer's name is only going to cause some sellers to refuse to sell them solos, and is going to hurt the overall business of not only the solo sellers, but Udimi itself.
Like I said, a list of serial refunders is certainly a great tool to help sellers, but this here is a terrible idea.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 16:37
Heather Alessandra
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A better and MORE HELPFUL idea would be to let the seller set a threshold value to flag the customer and show the flag to the seller when they go to ACCEPT a new solo from the person.
I worry your getting to point of STATISTICS BLOAT/ INFORMATION OVERLOAD and I am not sure that is helpful to both buyers and seller..
For me personally I would only want to know if the person has > then 30% refund rate. At a minimum ordered 4 solos.
Remember too, sometimes the person wants to cancel a solo in order to change their link in the swipe.
A better and MORE HELPFUL idea would be to let the seller set a threshold value to flag the customer and show the flag to the seller when they go to ACCEPT a new solo from the person.
I worry your getting to point of STATISTICS BLOAT/ INFORMATION OVERLOAD and I am not sure that is helpful to both buyers and seller..
For me personally I would only want to know if the person has > then 30% refund rate. At a minimum ordered 4 solos.
Remember too, sometimes the person wants to cancel a solo in order to change their link in the swipe.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 18:46
Christopher Mollo
905
111 posts /
106
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I agree with you about setting a threshold, but even that can lead to problems if not done correctly. My concern is that when the seller sees the statistic and sees that the number may be greater than what Udimi has set for an average refund rate, they will deny the buyer based on information that does not present all of the facts.
Add to that the fact that it says "buyers with high refund rates cause problems," or something to that effect, and you have a recipe for lots of lost solo sales and solo buys. It decreases the effectiveness of this site to do what it's designed to do, and that is to match honest solo sellers with good buyers.
For instance, if you look at my own stats you will see that my refund rate is 11%. That is considered much higher than the 2% that Udimi states is normal. Therefore, the seller may see me as a serial refunder or a refund risk and will not to sell me a solo, even though I am a very honest buyer and would never request a refund unless the clicks were fraudulent and I had proof, or the seller did not honor what their offer stated, such as saying they would send at least 70% tier 1 clicks and then sending less than 30%.
My stats say I have ordered 61 solos and had 7 refunds, and that, to my knowledge, is true. However, I think only 3 or 4 of those were initiated by me because the seller used a bot or sent other forms of unauthorized traffic, and the remaining ones were cancelled by a seller because they had a problem with their AR or accidentally overbooked themselves, etc.
In all actuality, 3 or 4 refunds out of 60+ solo is not excessive IMO, considering the high occurrence of click fraud that is becoming the norm in this industry.
I certainly believe that Uncle Dimitre's heart is in the right place and his only wish is to make this site even more secure, and I agree with posting a serial refunder list, but I don't think posting the refund statistics on the buyer's page is the right way to go.
That's just my two cents. I respect all of the opinions of others and of course, am open to having a hearty discussion about this.
I agree with you about setting a threshold, but even that can lead to problems if not done correctly. My concern is that when the seller sees the statistic and sees that the number may be greater than what Udimi has set for an average refund rate, they will deny the buyer based on information that does not present all of the facts.
Add to that the fact that it says "buyers with high refund rates cause problems," or something to that effect, and you have a recipe for lots of lost solo sales and solo buys. It decreases the effectiveness of this site to do what it's designed to do, and that is to match honest solo sellers with good buyers.
For instance, if you look at my own stats you will see that my refund rate is 11%. That is considered much higher than the 2% that Udimi states is normal. Therefore, the seller may see me as a serial refunder or a refund risk and will not to sell me a solo, even though I am a very honest buyer and would never request a refund unless the clicks were fraudulent and I had proof, or the seller did not honor what their offer stated, such as saying they would send at least 70% tier 1 clicks and then sending less than 30%.
My stats say I have ordered 61 solos and had 7 refunds, and that, to my knowledge, is true. However, I think only 3 or 4 of those were initiated by me because the seller used a bot or sent other forms of unauthorized traffic, and the remaining ones were cancelled by a seller because they had a problem with their AR or accidentally overbooked themselves, etc.
In all actuality, 3 or 4 refunds out of 60+ solo is not excessive IMO, considering the high occurrence of click fraud that is becoming the norm in this industry.
I certainly believe that Uncle Dimitre's heart is in the right place and his only wish is to make this site even more secure, and I agree with posting a serial refunder list, but I don't think posting the refund statistics on the buyer's page is the right way to go.
That's just my two cents. I respect all of the opinions of others and of course, am open to having a hearty discussion about this.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 19:00
Liz Hall
2325
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thank you
thank you
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 19:10
Heather Alessandra
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then again you might be surprised your 11% may not be as big a deal as you think. For me personally I would not be worried about it.
I am just worried about information overload.
then again you might be surprised your 11% may not be as big a deal as you think. For me personally I would not be worried about it.
I am just worried about information overload.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 19:19
Uncle Dimitry
0
697 posts /
557
likes
thanks for your responses!
I like Heather's idea with a warning, when rate is 30%+, while it is hidden on profile.
Just as a side note: system counts only refunds for 100% delivered solo. We ignore cancellations and other minor issues in this count.
I am open for other ideas.
As Chris correctly said: my main point is to improve the site and user experience.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
thanks for your responses!
I like Heather's idea with a warning, when rate is 30%+, while it is hidden on profile.
Just as a side note: system counts only refunds for 100% delivered solo. We ignore cancellations and other minor issues in this count.
I am open for other ideas.
As Chris correctly said: my main point is to improve the site and user experience.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 23:28
Heather Alessandra
1696
/ 1
273 posts /
246
likes
Ahh, if your only counting refunds from completed solos and have a threshold to trigger it I think that will end up being a very powerful metric to help limit abusive buyers.
I do think it is best that it is kept hidden for sellers only that way nobody tries to game it.
Ahh, if your only counting refunds from completed solos and have a threshold to trigger it I think that will end up being a very powerful metric to help limit abusive buyers.
I do think it is best that it is kept hidden for sellers only that way nobody tries to game it.
Posted 2 Apr 2015 at 23:52
Ann Jones
1258
/ 4
4 posts /
3
likes
Agree with Heather 100%
added later
This is really good Uncle Dimitry, very helpful :) Thanks
Agree with Heather 100%
added laterThis is really good Uncle Dimitry, very helpful :) Thanks
Posted 3 Apr 2015 at 00:13
Jesus Leon
340
36 posts /
19
likes
Uncle, you do care about the sellers :)~~ Thank you, nice!!
Uncle, you do care about the sellers :)~~ Thank you, nice!!
To protect you better, we added refund rate to each buyer's profile. This is a percentage of refunds selected person got as a buyer from sellers.
Now you can easily see potentially problematic buyer, who is looking for freebies.
Average refund rate on Udimi is 2%. Buyers with very high refund rate will cause problems.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
To protect you better, we added refund rate to each buyer's profile. This is a percentage of refunds selected person got as a buyer from sellers.
Now you can easily see potentially problematic buyer, who is looking for freebies.
Average refund rate on Udimi is 2%. Buyers with very high refund rate will cause problems.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
That makes my refund rate 11.48%, which is considered high, compared to the "2%" that you say is "normal." Then you go on to say that "buyers with high refund rates will cause problems." This is totally unfair. Now I have to worry that some good sellers will not sell to me because of some statistics which DO NOT portray the actual facts.
In the end, putting refund rates next to a buyer's name is only going to cause some sellers to refuse to sell them solos, and is going to hurt the overall business of not only the solo sellers, but Udimi itself.
Like I said, a list of serial refunders is certainly a great tool to help sellers, but this here is a terrible idea.
That makes my refund rate 11.48%, which is considered high, compared to the "2%" that you say is "normal." Then you go on to say that "buyers with high refund rates will cause problems." This is totally unfair. Now I have to worry that some good sellers will not sell to me because of some statistics which DO NOT portray the actual facts.
In the end, putting refund rates next to a buyer's name is only going to cause some sellers to refuse to sell them solos, and is going to hurt the overall business of not only the solo sellers, but Udimi itself.
Like I said, a list of serial refunders is certainly a great tool to help sellers, but this here is a terrible idea.
I worry your getting to point of STATISTICS BLOAT/ INFORMATION OVERLOAD and I am not sure that is helpful to both buyers and seller..
For me personally I would only want to know if the person has > then 30% refund rate. At a minimum ordered 4 solos.
Remember too, sometimes the person wants to cancel a solo in order to change their link in the swipe.
I worry your getting to point of STATISTICS BLOAT/ INFORMATION OVERLOAD and I am not sure that is helpful to both buyers and seller..
For me personally I would only want to know if the person has > then 30% refund rate. At a minimum ordered 4 solos.
Remember too, sometimes the person wants to cancel a solo in order to change their link in the swipe.
Add to that the fact that it says "buyers with high refund rates cause problems," or something to that effect, and you have a recipe for lots of lost solo sales and solo buys. It decreases the effectiveness of this site to do what it's designed to do, and that is to match honest solo sellers with good buyers.
For instance, if you look at my own stats you will see that my refund rate is 11%. That is considered much higher than the 2% that Udimi states is normal. Therefore, the seller may see me as a serial refunder or a refund risk and will not to sell me a solo, even though I am a very honest buyer and would never request a refund unless the clicks were fraudulent and I had proof, or the seller did not honor what their offer stated, such as saying they would send at least 70% tier 1 clicks and then sending less than 30%.
My stats say I have ordered 61 solos and had 7 refunds, and that, to my knowledge, is true. However, I think only 3 or 4 of those were initiated by me because the seller used a bot or sent other forms of unauthorized traffic, and the remaining ones were cancelled by a seller because they had a problem with their AR or accidentally overbooked themselves, etc.
In all actuality, 3 or 4 refunds out of 60+ solo is not excessive IMO, considering the high occurrence of click fraud that is becoming the norm in this industry.
I certainly believe that Uncle Dimitre's heart is in the right place and his only wish is to make this site even more secure, and I agree with posting a serial refunder list, but I don't think posting the refund statistics on the buyer's page is the right way to go.
That's just my two cents. I respect all of the opinions of others and of course, am open to having a hearty discussion about this.
Add to that the fact that it says "buyers with high refund rates cause problems," or something to that effect, and you have a recipe for lots of lost solo sales and solo buys. It decreases the effectiveness of this site to do what it's designed to do, and that is to match honest solo sellers with good buyers.
For instance, if you look at my own stats you will see that my refund rate is 11%. That is considered much higher than the 2% that Udimi states is normal. Therefore, the seller may see me as a serial refunder or a refund risk and will not to sell me a solo, even though I am a very honest buyer and would never request a refund unless the clicks were fraudulent and I had proof, or the seller did not honor what their offer stated, such as saying they would send at least 70% tier 1 clicks and then sending less than 30%.
My stats say I have ordered 61 solos and had 7 refunds, and that, to my knowledge, is true. However, I think only 3 or 4 of those were initiated by me because the seller used a bot or sent other forms of unauthorized traffic, and the remaining ones were cancelled by a seller because they had a problem with their AR or accidentally overbooked themselves, etc.
In all actuality, 3 or 4 refunds out of 60+ solo is not excessive IMO, considering the high occurrence of click fraud that is becoming the norm in this industry.
I certainly believe that Uncle Dimitre's heart is in the right place and his only wish is to make this site even more secure, and I agree with posting a serial refunder list, but I don't think posting the refund statistics on the buyer's page is the right way to go.
That's just my two cents. I respect all of the opinions of others and of course, am open to having a hearty discussion about this.
I am just worried about information overload.
I am just worried about information overload.
I like Heather's idea with a warning, when rate is 30%+, while it is hidden on profile.
Just as a side note: system counts only refunds for 100% delivered solo. We ignore cancellations and other minor issues in this count.
I am open for other ideas.
As Chris correctly said: my main point is to improve the site and user experience.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
I like Heather's idea with a warning, when rate is 30%+, while it is hidden on profile.
Just as a side note: system counts only refunds for 100% delivered solo. We ignore cancellations and other minor issues in this count.
I am open for other ideas.
As Chris correctly said: my main point is to improve the site and user experience.
Best, Uncle Dimitry.
Ahh, if your only counting refunds from completed solos and have a threshold to trigger it I think that will end up being a very powerful metric to help limit abusive buyers.
I do think it is best that it is kept hidden for sellers only that way nobody tries to game it.
Ahh, if your only counting refunds from completed solos and have a threshold to trigger it I think that will end up being a very powerful metric to help limit abusive buyers.
I do think it is best that it is kept hidden for sellers only that way nobody tries to game it.
added laterThis is really good Uncle Dimitry, very helpful :) Thanks