Posts of Fabian Tan
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year :-)

Posted 26 Dec at 16:18
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Glenn Fedoruk on 05 Nov 2020 at 07:38
You dont seem to see the logic here if the price gets set at 0.50 minimum then it will have the same effect as 0.40 a click minimum here now people will have no choice but to pay that if they want to shop at UDIMI . It will either work or it wont but if it does it provides all of us a greater chance to earn more.

Oh I do see the logic, the logic is that everyone will have to pay $0.50 per click and above for their clicks, and all sellers are forced to sell at that price, even newcomers trying to get reviews. Where does the inflation end, in a few years everyone will be looking at paying $0.90 per click and nobody will be ordering 1000 clicks at that price. The minimum was only raised last year to $0.40. The timing for such increments have to be right and now is not the right timing to ask people to pay more.

Also, a buyer who might be thinking of getting 200 clicks will now be thinking of getting just 150 or even 100 clicks, because the price per click on average has gone up in your scenario. The result - only a few sellers win (in the short term), and all buyers get less value than what they are getting now.

$0.50 minimum is a bit too high, $0.30 was too low, $0.40 minimum is just nice. Anyone who wants to sell at $0.50 per click is able to do so.

Posted 5 Nov at 08:02
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Lia Malassa on 03 Nov 2020 at 15:56
Glenn, if you wanted 0.50 minimum price, why didn't you set it up yourself first?

You have every rights to increase your own pricing so please don't drag anyone into your conspiracy.

I might be wrong, but I think it is quite the opposite statement coming from someone who always sells his price at 0.40

You know it's not fair to generalize minimum prices to be the same as you wanted to while you have the most reviews compares with new sellers.

Cheers!

Exactly, there is nothing to stop anyone from selling at $0.50 per click or more, that's what's called a free market economy. Obviously, if you charge a higher price, there will be lesser sales, then the onus is on convincing customers you provide a better service which is worth the higher price, such as more consultation on their landing pages, providing a higher T1 percentage, providing a fast turnaround time, 24-hour service with help from your assistants etc.

There are already controls here to stop sellers from selling at ridiculous prices like $0.20-$0.25 per click (which many are doing on FB) and also to stop sellers from selling at $2 per click. $0.40 is sufficient at this point in time and most sellers in the Solo Deals section are selling at that price point because it is a nice balanced price which makes sense for buyers and sellers. If sellers want to tweak their prices around it and increase it slightly, there is nothing to stop them.

Posted 5 Nov at 01:29
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

I agree with all Reed has said.


In the Solo Deals section, a large majority of sellers are selling at below $0.50 per click. If it has to be changed in future, maybe the minimum CPC for the Solo Deals section should be kept at $0.40 per click (since they are deals after all), but for the rest of the site it can be $0.45. But now I don't think is the right time.

Posted 5 Oct at 12:01
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Reed Floren on 05 Oct 2020 at 02:29
I don't believe that raising it across the board is a good idea especially in the current climate.

If some sellers want to raise their rates then they can do so. The market will decide who is worth the extra money and who isn't.

I agree with this.

Posted 5 Oct at 11:03
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Glenn Fedoruk on 04 Oct 2020 at 15:03
Dentists here in Canada use a guidebook in which they have to charge from . Keeping the prices high keeps the value in the industry . Operating and selling with fees such as these at 0.35 would be ridiculous as there would be no profit at all . 0.45-0.50 is not much to charge at all and people would pay it . You dont get service with security and filtering at Facebook to ensure quality . The customers pay a bit higher cost per click because they do have this service and we pay higher fees so that should go into the cost per click .

The quality and service is higher on Udimi than Facebook groups, that's one of the reasons why the minimum CPC was raised from $0.30 per click to $0.40 per click, which at the time many people had no issues with and were happy with. That was only around a year ago. I've been here since the beginning of the site in around 2013 or 2014 and was using the solos section of the previous site Safe-Swaps since 2009 or 2010 so I've seen the evolution of the industry, last year was the first time the minimum price was increased. If we keep increasing the price at a rate of $0.10 per click per year, we all know where this is going. At higher prices, people will just buy lesser clicks to suit their budget.


$0.40, $0.45, $0.50, it's all not a big difference, it's more of a psychological thing with pricing and the main thing is to find the right price. It's a free market after all, of course there are safeguards to stop people here from selling at $0.20 per click, but at the same time, there is nothing to stop sellers from selling at $0.50 per click or more, $0.50 is not much more than the minimum of $0.40 now.


At the end of the day, it's just a slight difference, but that slight difference could be crucial. An example I have is recently one of the food delivery services I use tried to increase their delivery fees across the board by around $1, after a few weeks they changed it back to the previous pricing range, it probably didn't work for them because the price was above the ideal market price. And food delivery apps is a booming business now but they had to adjust their pricing once they found it was too high.

Posted 4 Oct at 15:26
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

I would slightly agree if it's $0.45 per click but raising to $0.50 per click or more might be too high, particularly in this pandemic when many people are trying to jump-start their online businesses as a career or as a second income and their finances may be tight. Many industries are lowering their prices rather than increasing them. Google and Bing ads may have seen increases in CPC only because more offline businesses are using them (they are using online traffic as a way to replace foot traffic). However, offline businesses rarely use solo ads.


As well, many sellers on Facebook are charging around $0.30-$0.35 per click and even though the quality is poorer, there will be buyers who will compare prices between the two avenues, whether it's right or not. One could say that after deducting fees, you only earn around that amount here also, but buyers will not see it that way. Once you add in fees on their side, it's $0.53 per click from their perspective.


If it has to be done, it should be done gradually. Because at what point does it become price gouging or price fixing? $0.53 per click will seem high for many buyers, and not all sellers will set their price as $0.50 per click.


A reasonable compromise would be $0.45 per click, if it has be increased. Sellers who want to sell at $0.50 per click can easily do so and there shouldn't be any big issues.

added later

Another key point is that new buyers will be more willing to purchase solos on Udimi if the minimum CPC is $0.40-$0.45 per click. The difference between $0.40-$0.45 per click and what many sellers charge on Facebook (around $0.30-$0.35 per click) is much less compared to $0.50 per click (or $0.53 after including fees). Many buyers look at pricing also as one of the factors, even though the quality on Udimi is higher.


Buyers will be more willing to buy their first solos on Udimi instead of other avenues if the pricing is competitive. The sweet spot is probably $0.40-$0.45 per click, especially for new buyers just starting to try out the solo ads, before trying out sellers with different price points.

Posted 4 Oct at 12:36
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Yes I agree, 40 cents minimum is the sweet spot.

Posted 26 Dec at 12:22
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

40 cents minimum price is good enough, not too low (like 25-30 cents) or too high (like 50 cents).

Posted 26 Dec at 05:42
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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William McRea on 01 Sep 2017 at 13:24
yeah nice change....everyone has an equally fair chance of grabbing business and building a following...also I think we will spend as much money but won't have to have so much "tied"up for weeks waiting out turn.

Thanks and good luck

added later

maybe limit people to 1 numb per day or 3 per week..just a thought

Yeah good idea, maybe a maximum of one bump/new deal per seller every 24 hours. One per day which is seven per week is already quite a lot. The same can be done for the new Promoted status. The limit can also be adjusted (to maximum 3-5 per week) in case deals are bumped down too fast, so it's a good idea.

Posted 1 Sep at 14:30
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Thanks for the update Uncle. I think many of us sellers will go for the Solo Deal rather than the new Promoted Status, however that may cause deals to be bumped down faster, and Promoted spots may stay in the top 3-5 positions of "Find Sellers" for longer. So a possible adjustment in future could be increasing the Promoted spot cost to for example $47 and the Solo Deal cost to be $67. Solo Deals get bumped down faster but they get a lot of views in a few hours but I think the Promoted spots could stay at the top longer so the benefits will be gotten over a longer period and in multiple locations.

By the way, I see that the "Bump to the top" option is $60, is there a difference between that and the $75 bump? Or is it only $60 if a deal is already near the top for example?

Overall I think the change will give more control, because with the previous Promoted status, sellers got a lot of orders, but then had to wait days or weeks for the next spot to be open. The previous alternative that didn't have a queue meant sellers had to wait at their computer for a spot to open up. Now there is more control and anytime sellers have spots for solos, they can bump the deal immediately and get a lot of orders within hours.

By the way, on another topic, I think the wording for "Allow the seller to start earlier than scheduled" should be changed to something like "Give seller the option to send earlier than scheduled", because the first one is often interpreted as meaning the seller must send early but the second one implies that seller has the option if they want to send early. It's not a big deal, but I think the second wording is clearer.

Posted 1 Sep at 10:56
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Uncle Dimitry on 15 Aug 2017 at 16:21
That is the question...

If we set the price way too low, new threads will go down too fast.

If the price is too high, there will be no profit for sellers and no threads at all.

We will start with something in the middle between current Standard and Promoted price and then adjust up or down, depending on popularity and profitability for sellers.

Best, Uncle Dimitry.

Ok thanks!

So it will be around $75-$100? Seems a bit high as there is a risk 2-3 other sellers will bump down the deal in a few hours, and in 12-24 hours it could be in 5th-10th spots, I think for that price a deal should be looking to stay in the top 3 spots for around 48-72 hours but may be hard to do that. I think starting off with around $47 and adjusting from there may work, but let's see how it works out...

Posted 15 Aug at 16:33
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes
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Uncle Dimitry on 15 Aug 2017 at 09:56
Here is what we are planning to do

1. In solo deals section all threads will have only regular thread type (no promoted) All threads will be equal.

2. All bumps will be instant. No queue, no limits, self balancing system like on WF.

3. Optionally any member can buy promoted status for any period of time. Promoted status will just give more visibility: spot on the Home page, in newsletter, search, etc...

Thanks, I think this should be a good change, how much will a listing and bump cost? I think a sweet spot would be around $20-$30. $40+ may be a bit too high as the deals will be bumped down quicker. Some may also want to bump their deal daily so $20-$30 would be better for encouraging that. If it is $40+, then there should be a period of testing to see on average how quickly orders are bumped down from 1st to around 5th spot and below and how many orders sellers are getting for each bump. Maybe there should be some testing also if it's $20-$30 to see how quickly deals are bumped down. I think in the first few days it will be bumped down quicker so maybe a testing period of 1-2 weeks.


Also, how much will the new Promoted spot (that is for the search, home page, newsletter etc) cost? I think since the visibility for a Promoted spot will be halved (as it will no longer be tied to the Solo Deals section), maybe the cost should be around half of the current price, so maybe around $75? And perhaps limit to 10 Promoted spots for the Find Sellers section and keep it as a 7-day status? Or will there be options like 14 days or 30 days? One issue with having a longer period as an option is some of the spots will be booked up for a very long time.

Posted 15 Aug at 16:07
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

The good thing about the most previous system is that the Promoted bump also came with an immediate bump in the Find Sellers section and an instant Promoted label, that made the Promoted spot more worth it as there is a double bump. But I can see how it would be unfair to sellers who did not buy a Promoted spot as there would be be 20-30 Promoted spots ahead of them in many search scenarios, instead of just 10 Promoted spots like before. I assume there is also a double bump with the new reverted system, but the issue is waiting for a Promoted spot to open up and trying to get it at that exact second. So immediate bump at $20-$30 could be a solution.

added later

Instant bump at fixed price will also result in more deal rotation in the Solo Deals section and should give more variety for buyers.

Posted 11 Aug at 02:54
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

In the first few days, it may be a bit crazy as threads will get bumped down quicker but eventually the market will even out and threads will stay at the top longer, as sellers begin to realize it's counter-productive to bump each other down too often. If it works on Warrior Forum, it will work here too, and it did used to work here as this was the first system that was used before the systems that followed. I think it's better than waiting for a Promoted spot to open up. At least it should be worth a trial (or re-trial) for a week or two.

Posted 10 Aug at 17:47
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

The legacy system of Solo Deals on Safe Swaps was the best (before Safe Swaps' solo section became Udimi), where anybody who paid $20 was immediately bumped to the top, and the next person who paid $20 was bumped to the top and so on, so all Solo Deals have the same status. This is similar to the Warrior Forum WSO system. Those who wanted to stay at the top or near the top could bump their deal daily if they choose to, and it would be similar to spending $150 one time on one Promoted Deal. $20 daily for 7 days is $140 and they will be near the top for all the 7 days instead of slowly dropping down in positions. I remember consistently spending $20 to bump my deal in those days and I always got a lot of orders.


Those who want to be near the top for a few days could bump their solo deal two or three times per week, and with the consistent orders they get, they will probably continue doing the same week after week. Before the new system now, there was a queue that sometimes took months, and now I'm assuming sellers have to wait until the exact second a Promoted spot opens, before there is even a chance of getting near the top. Sure, I remember in this system usually a Promoted spot will open up daily, but it's quite stressful to wait for the exact second it opens when there are a few other people doing the same and I assume probably quite demoralizing if someone else still manages to get the spot ahead of you and you have to wait another day or two. And Simple Deals at $47 are vastly less effective as they start off at 11th spot. So for long periods of time (days or for most of the day), the highest anyone can get is 11th spot as Promoted spots are closed due to all 10 spots are taken up.


Giving the latest bump the top spot at a fixed price of $20-$30 will give everyone a fair chance of getting near the top, and it'll be open all the time. So anyone who wants to grab the top spot can immediately grab it. Since I think the top 3-5 spots will be bumped down fairly quickly, $20-$30 sounds about right, and the next day those who want to be near the top again can repurchase. The Promoted spots in the Find Sellers section can be a separate promotion if sellers want to buy it, it could be a weekly thing for $50-$100 and that one could have a maximum of 10 spots since the Find Sellers section is actually a ranking system first and foremost where the top sellers should get the higher spots and not have to consistently battle for placement. So a maximum of 10 Promoted spots there is fairer.

added later

$20-$30 per bump and making it a free-for-all that is open all the time is better than spending $150 one time. If I spend $150 on the Promoted deal, I already have the feeling I'm essentially sending 3-4 free solos to cover the price. With $20-$30 per bump and having the option to bump it daily if I want to keep it near the top, there is more flexibility.

Posted 10 Aug at 15:27
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Ok, only issue is that many new users will use the default search criteria at least in the beginning, but I guess sellers have to compare the results from non-Promoted and Promoted status and see if it's worth it to continue bumping the deals. I was having many orders in the last two or three weeks before the changes last week even without Promoted status, and then I stopped receiving orders almost completely so it seemed like non-Promoted status became a lot less effective (even though I have a decent overall ranking). I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

Posted 26 Jul at 15:47
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Thanks for replying, yeah I was referring to the Find Sellers section where the top 20+ positions are all Promoted sellers now, so anyone who doesn't buy Promoted status has a lot less chances to get sales compared to before. I think it's better to have the top 10 being Promoted (those who just had their Solo Deal bumped up) and then after that for every 20 positions, 3 random Promoted sellers. Or maybe just a maximum of 20 Promoted sellers in the "Find Sellers" section at anytime. Previously, it was only 10, so 20 is still an improvement.

If 40+ sellers bought Promoted status, all the top 40+ positions in the Find Sellers section I assume will be filled by Promoted sellers, so it will dilute the status and everyone else has very little chance to make sales, except for a few sellers who already have many repeat buyers.

I was getting quite a lot of orders recently even without Promoted status, but now I feel that it would be a lot harder to get orders without that status.

Posted 26 Jul at 12:05
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

After getting Promoted status, I noticed now the first 20+ sellers are all Promoted sellers, is it no longer just the first 10 are Promoted, then 3 random Promoted per 20 sellers? I noticed in the first few days of the new system, it was 10 Promoted sellers then 3 random Promoted for every 20 sellers.

It was better just a few days ago with the first 10 being promoted, then a random 3 promoted per 20, now everyone who doesn't buy promoted status has very little chance to get sales, with the first 20-25+ sellers all being promoted sellers. If suddenly 40+ sellers bought promoted status, then too many people have that status and it dilutes the effectiveness if someone bought promoted status but is in position 30 for example. They have to wait until their Solo Deal is bumped to get into the Top 10 of the Find Sellers section.

I think it may also be better to have Promoted deals bumped to the top of simple deals immediately, as it will give more incentive to purchase Promoted status. Because if one buys the Simple status immediately, it is immediately bumped up at least to 11th position. This I think will get even more sales from Promoted deals. Maybe Simple deal price can be reduced to $30 or $40 (meaning sellers only need around one sale to break even) since it will be bumped down quicker.

Posted 26 Jul at 11:43
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Fabian Tan
1397  / 22
32 posts / 12 likes

Don't enable cloaking on your trackers as I think that puts the page in a frame, as the URL is changed in the browser so it is directly interfering in the process. If the buyer uses cloaking, it should be ok as they are not the ones who have to send traffic (but then again cloaking is generally known to cause problems), but for the seller, it is relevant.

If this is not the issue, then I'm sorry, can't help.

Posted 9 Sep at 19:47
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